2006-07-11
From espians
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The Team Of Total Awesomenesses Summary Shaila, The First
- Info: See <http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/latest> for introductory docs.
- Author: Jeffry Archambeault (jeffarch) <jjarchambeault@gmail.com>
- Date: $Date: 2006-07-11 15:00:00 -0400 (Tue, 11 Jul 2006) $
- Revision: $Revision: 0002 $
- Description: Cumulative Summary of daily #esp-core IRC logs
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Shaila Meta-Stuff
This document is a fairly-accurate snapshot current to the date/time above.
References - http://www.espians.com/espra/devplan.html document covers the details. - http://www.largeblue.com/_space/first_run_through.txt lists development steps - <talonlzr> http://get.modportal.net/~talon/KalatiEncodingPlatform-Overview.pdf - https://svn.espnow.net/kalati/sandbox/talon/kalati-encoder-docs/kalati-encoder-docs.txt - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/latest - <tav> irclogs are now private too 06:59:36 - <tav> login: espian / hakuna 06:59:45
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#esp-core Summary
[Business Contracts]
clients include adidas (signed), 21west, telephony japan, guardian (about to be signed), united nations, unicef, buckingham university (late stage negotiations)
tav yeah, adidas was signed as largeblue given that we needed the cash in quick -- the rest will be signed as butterfly.tv -- thus why we're working up the funky contracts
- <thruflo> hang on - mtg w greenpeace brb - <thruflo> hey tav back: so I've promised to set them up with hosting, they want to host 2 sites now; will be very light in storage and bandwidth requirements; need to set up sftp access separately for the different sites; one is all static client side code; one requires php mysql and a gui for mysql 04:46:24 - <thruflo> don't have any domain details yet - should I ask for info or provide it?! 04:47:24 - <thruflo> and can we agree some figures and timescales 04:47:49
- <tav> we got the nokia deal btw 16:55:34 - <tav> w00p! =) 16:55:38 - <jeffarch> tav: what's the nokia deal? 17:02:26 - <tav> jeffarch: doing an intranet for nokia csr (corporate social responsibility) -- justifies doing the community-related aspects of the development ;p
<tav> tavistockfestival.co.uk -- needs a normal account where the site can be uploaded as well as forwards for a few mail accounts -- well, just mailadmin access would do. can take it from there
- <tav> thruflo: what's the fairtrade foundation thing ? 05:54:13 - <thruflo> It's for a microsite and interactive game to promote buying fairtrade products when 'out of home' 05:54:58
- <thruflo> been setting up green.tv germany 08:41:48 - <thruflo> yup, they're v. cool, ie: nice people 08:43:17 - <thruflo> and they're well up for a german version 08:43:31 - <thruflo> ie: to manage the production / sourcing of german content 08:43:45 - <tav> they up for paying for the community localisation system? ;p 08:43:52 - <thruflo> and to manage the german translation / user interface 08:44:00 - <thruflo> they're certainly up for a license :) 08:44:15 - <tav> woo! ;p 08:44:38 - <thruflo> and I've been pitching the community localization like it's going out of fashion 08:44:51 - <tav> cool cool, figured you'd be 08:45:19
- <thruflo> btw green.tv was mentioned on BBC's click programme today 06:35:15 - <GReaper> oooooh 06:35:44 - <GReaper> ah right 06:36:13 - <GReaper> that explains the peak in the graphs :p 06:36:18 - <tav> hmz what graph ? 06:37:57 - <thruflo> hope so! did also just publish 8 films which gets traffic from subscribers 06:38:00 - <tav> where's the graph for han ? 06:38:03 - <thruflo> https://secure.espnow.net/cacti/graph_view.php?action=tree&tree_id=1&leaf_id=9&predefine 06:38:13 - <tav> ah, GReaper what happened to the historical data ? 06:39:16 - <GReaper> problems moving from qin to temp1 06:39:36 - <GReaper> apologies for that 06:39:51 - <tav> we no have our historical data ? 06:39:56 - * tav sob 06:39:59 - <GReaper> and need to do host1 graphs for each node :p 06:40:19 - <tav> host1 ? 06:40:29 - <GReaper> host1.espnow.net 06:40:35 - <GReaper> that's the box that qin is on 06:40:43 - <tav> ah 06:40:45 - <tav> host1 (qin, admin1, salfield) ? 06:40:55 - <GReaper> do a traceroute and you shall see 06:41:06 - <GReaper> yup 06:41:08
- <tav> hmz -- http://www.otre.at/wordpress/ -- yet another someone interested in butterfly.tv 13:41:28 - <oierw> tav: how do these people hear of us? 13:47:18 - <tav> that particular one was via an espian -- xirzon 13:47:45 - <tav> most are through our lovers over at large blue 13:48:07
- <tav> but, the guardian meeting went really well -- we thrashed through the API that they want to interact with, &c. 14:13:04 - <tav> hmz, can you look at http://openmediacoalition.org/ -- username and password are in the login box message... 14:15:57 - <tav> ^ jeffarch & others: can you look at that and let me know how it applies to our work, especially w.r.t espra, &c. 14:16:21
- <thruflo> ah, tx 03:35:21 - <thruflo> let me know when you'd like to look at the guardian response & service description 03:36:21 - <thruflo> i'm currently chuntering through the nokia spec 03:37:16
thruflo and nads working on 21west.tv - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/27#11-39-07 - <thruflo> been fiddling with user interface 07:19:48 - <thruflo> http://www.green.tv:8002 07:19:54
<thruflo> phenny: can you ask GReaper whether he's set up the hosting for the two ltb foundation sites? 02:53:43
- <thruflo> just had Graham Seabrook in from BT - from the BT broadband research dept 05:55:58 - <thruflo> 2 threads from the mtg: 05:56:16 - <thruflo> a) get green.tv as a channel on BT Vision 05:56:29 - <thruflo> b) set up another tech mtg to discuss broadband applications for a year in the future 05:56:50
[Business Structure]
- formation of butterfly.tv, jointly owned by esp metanational llp and largeblue ltd. - It will be providing affordable broadband and mobile television services - the success of green.tv showed that such things were in demand and would provide funding for initial development.
- tav share structure of butterfly.tv: - tav * 35% esp - tav * 35% largeblue - tav * 10% ade - tav * 10% thruflo - tav * 10% tav - tav </share-structure> - kpi is the <share-structure> written down somewhere and signed by those who administer the money? - tav kpi: we're be doing that as part of the grand incorporation process going on
<tav> http://svn.espnow.net/kalati/kore/project/esp/state_of_espia.txt
[Business Accounting]
- £90,000 of the funds received from signed clients will be used for the intense development period.
[Development Timeline]
Basic Schedule - tav so, draft timeline: - tav * 15th june -- development starts - tav * 14th july -- production servers start getting setup - tav * 17th july -- testing and user interface integration begins - tav * 27th july -- production instances are ready for clients - tav * 28th july -- oceans of booze ;p - Omni|Work but hopefully no boos. - kpi so: first: work. then: money? - tav basically, 6-week development period -- and money for it at the end of it for core components of protoplex/kalati
Licensing - GReaper trying to figure out licensing - tav £2k/mo for corporate clients and £1.4k/mo for non-corporate - tav on top they get charged for bandwidth and any customisations - GReaper costs i mean :p - tav ah, software licensing ? - tav basically, we need to pay for quicktime, windows, flix, and an unknown buffer for any others - GReaper ah, flix license is a one off when you buy more servers - tav requests to encode use the premium bandwidth - tav yeah, the licenses increase as we add new servers - tav new windows servers to be specific - tav we have a 2 servers for each "encoding" -- one linux to do the preparation work (e.g. pal <-> ntsc, hard subtitling) and hopefully flash, and one windows to do most of the other formats - tav need to negotiate down that flix license obviously - tav but, even at initial price, we're profitable
There's a spreadsheet discussed at http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/16#15-26-54
- <jeffarch> I see a best case as being able to use http://khashmir.sourceforge.net/, http://www.heim-d.uni-sb.de/~heikowu/SharkyPy/, or http://thecircle.org.au/ 19:37:01 - <tav> yeah, we'll be adapting all of those 19:37:23
Tav's schedule - <tav> so, the situation is this... i need to: 20:00:03 - <tav> a). get the tech development done 20:00:11 - <tav> b). get the business development done 20:00:18 - <tav> c). see nammi in india 20:00:23 - <tav> d). see liliana in italy (?) 20:00:32 - <tav> e). see you/nadine in london 20:00:43 - <tav> all before the end of july... 20:00:54
Not mentioned was the issue of schedule slippage - <jeffarch> here we go- http://www.ddj.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189401902 16:15:50 - <jeffarch> "How to do smart software development even when facing impossible schedules." 16:16:12 - <talonlzr> [21:11] <hn> http://www.ddj.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189401902 16:17:03 - <talonlzr> [22:31] <talonlzr> related articles: 16:17:04 - <talonlzr> [22:31] <talonlzr> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30091&seqNum=1&rl=1 16:17:04 - <talonlzr> [22:31] <talonlzr> http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=24900&seqNum=1&rl=1 16:17:04 - <talonlzr> [22:32] <hn> hehe 16:17:04
The view from oierw - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/07/09#09-23-30 - <oierw> i think I understand what butterfly.tv needs to occur to meet any sort of deadline, and it doesn't contain any need for kalati work atm 09:23:30 - <jeffarch> protokalati 09:24:40 - <oierw> heh, no 09:25:58 - <oierw> i put up a document on the wiki that explains the things that I think may be required to get butterfly.tv off the ground 18:43:19 - https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/wiki/ButterflyStartup
<GReaper> administration dashboard?! 09:42:10 - <oierw> err, hide the backend with something that all easy and clicky 09:43:06 - <oierw> it's a thing fo rthe clients to sadminister their sites, not us to administer the servers 09:43:33 - <jeffarch> so that'd be cherrypy and kid stuff 09:43:33 - <oierw> yeah 09:43:39 - <thruflo> http://admin.brightcove.com/console/ 09:43:45 - <oierw> thanks thruflo 09:43:58 - <oierw> that 09:44:04 - <thruflo> anytime :) 09:44:06 - <jeffarch> ah yes :) 09:44:38 - <oierw> we *need* something like that 09:45:10 - <oierw> it dosen't have to be as snazzy, but without that, noone will use the ideas 09:45:23 - <oierw> and sometime later we move the backend from protoplex to kalati 09:45:35 - <jeffarch> http://www.webfaction.com/ may also be useful wrt http://admin.brightcove.com/console/ 10:11:25 - <jeffarch> "It is written in Python and CherryPy." 10:13:33
[Development Tasks]
Basic Description - thruflo http://www.largeblue.com/space/first_run_through.txt - tav does that text file make much sense? - tav 1.1 abstracting out the work done so far and making it easy to deploy across new servers (evangineer & GReaper) - tav 1.2 the automated encoding i spoke about (talonlzr) - tav 1.3 expanding the support for our multi-plugin/multi-platform player - tav 2.1/a increasing the capabilities of our OMI (object management interface -- tagging, relations, &c.) - tav 2.1/b having the capacity to do rapid mockups and do easy composing of new user interfaces to the same services (nads) - tav 2.2/a community-oriented tools - tav 2.2/b general integration (mail, sms, ical, &c.) - tav 2.2/c accounting systems, customer relationship management, task/resource management, &c. -- simple but effective tools - tav 3.1/a dynamic server setup -- so we can have a quick way of setting up new instances (evangineer & GReaper) - tav 3.2/a client portal -- management -- real time stats - tav 3.2/b integration into clients' workflows, e.g. with final cut pro, &c.
FastCGI - <GReaper> fastcgi would be easier to implement on the webserver 03:32:13 - <tav> hmz, what are the advantages of fastcgi ? 03:34:23 - <GReaper> apache or lighttpd will basically spawn the process itself 03:35:43 - <GReaper> however, it keeps the socket open and constantly reuses it to increase performance (unlike regular CGI) 03:36:15 - <GReaper> it *should* be easier to deploy on servers 03:36:42 - <tav> hmz, we'll be moving off of cherrypy soon 03:40:24 - <tav> guess we could use flup as long as wsgi is supported 03:41:16 - <tav> wsgi == http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0333/ 03:41:33 - <GReaper> http://www.saddi.com/software/flup/ 03:41:53 - <GReaper> WSGI servers 03:41:59 - <GReaper> flup.server.fcgi 03:42:03 - <GReaper> flup.server.fcgi_fork 03:42:03
Some code explainations - <tav> shall i explain http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python to you ? 17:18:35 - <tav> the meta-structure that is 17:18:42 - ? Omni|Work left 17:18:48 - <sbp> sure 17:18:55 - <tav> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/site is probably the best place to start 17:19:35 - <tav> we provide PIMP_LOCATIONS via the system environment 17:20:07 - <tav> the sitecustomise automatically loads up http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/importer/pimp/pimp.py 17:21:16 - <tav> and does enter_the_red_light_district() 17:21:28 - <tav> which just creates the appropriate pimps (currently, only LocalPimps are available) and sets up appropriate builtins 17:22:15 - <sbp> ModuleType = type(__builtin__) 17:22:47 - <sbp> or from types import ModuleType 17:22:54 - <tav> both are valid 17:23:15 - <tav> i'm gradually looking to deprecate the std library 17:23:27 - <tav> ;p 17:23:32 - <sbp> fair enough 17:23:35 - <tav> woo! the first person who didn't suggest that was insane 17:24:34 - <sbp> :-) 17:24:53 - <sbp> I'm a bit less keen on "# @/@ should perhaps be the aktual instanse ..." of course 17:25:41 - <sbp> "# otherwise, look in various locations" - especially since you're inkonsistent 17:26:11 - <tav> there's 'builtin/type' -- aka http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/builtin/type/type.py to take over already 17:26:26 - <sbp> ooh, duck typing 17:26:57 - <tav> oh yeah, where i've rewritten or adapted code, i've added some benefits, e.g. some documentation, removal of fluff, &c. - <tav> pimp is probably easily explained by looking at http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/disco/base/disco.py 17:32:51 - <sbp> because clearly there's an inconsistency somewhere between my version of svn and the version on bia 17:32:54 - <sbp> just smoothing it over now won't change the inconsistency in the software 17:33:10 - <sbp> so it may remanifest itself 17:33:13 - <sbp> hence it'd be preferable to fix the software, not kludge a fix 17:33:32 - <sbp> but... 17:33:34 - <tav> at the top you can see it pimping various bits and bobs. pimp('from/some/path', 'func1', 'func2', 'func3 as foo') 17:33:48 - <tav> you can even do pimp('from/some/path', ':some_predefined_export') - which are kinda like subsets of 'from foo import * ' 17:34:33 - <tav> but, instead of __all__, __export__ is used to define them 17:34:47 - <tav> with pimp('some/path', '*') falling back to __all__ 17:35:10 - <sbp> python/builtin/type/type.py is pretty neat 17:35:41 - <tav> it's mainly just a cleanup of the std. library version 17:36:16 - <tav> oh, yeah, i got tired of seeing all those __init__.py files in my editor 17:36:39 - <sbp> "# let's play with mr. sok -- sok me off darling" 17:36:46 - <tav> so, made pimp's behavious different 17:36:49 - <tav> ^behaviour 17:36:59 - <tav> ehm, *cough* 17:37:02 - <sbp> "# duk typing -- if it walks and quaks like a duk is it a duk?" 17:37:06 - <tav> hmz, maybe i shouldn't have let this code get off my lappy 17:39:13 - <sbp> why's that? 17:39:39 - <tav> it's a bit private yer'know 17:39:52 - <sbp> seems pretty great to me so far 17:40:02
Pointers to code to examine - <tav> checkout packages like https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/proto/package/fir and https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/proto/package/video 10:41:15 - <tav> talonlzr: https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/s11n/psf/psf.py is the serialisation format i was referring to 16:37:07 - <tav> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/plexnet/service/plexcommand.py is the plex command line equivalent 16:38:07
More Documentation - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/29 by tav (1 added) in trunk/source/python/app/proto/ -- 'Some documentation detailing the various other Python packages that Protoplex depends on.' -- deps.txt (A) 13:46:31 - <tav> the above deps.txt should be the final bit of information needed for someone to successfully get protoplex working ;p 13:47:52 - <tav> sorry for not providing it before -- only realised the need for it during a conversation with sbp this morning 13:48:25 - <tav> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/kore/on_kalati/python_timing_notes.txt 16:26:05
English Docs - <keyjaque> der_t, so basically we talk a bout an async, message/event based system 03:58:17 - <keyjaque> I am not sure about the granularity, but the overall idea seems to make sence 03:58:44 - <keyjaque> sense ? 03:58:49 - <keyjaque> wahterver the spelling is 03:58:55 - <der_t> yes between the UIM (helper) and UIC (controller) 03:58:56 - <keyjaque> btw, should we write all docs in english ? 03:59:21 - <der_t> yeah from now. 03:59:32 - <tav> sense 03:59:52 - <der_t> would u like to translate this and put your ideas onto that? 03:59:55 - <tav> yeah, i'd love it if the docs were to be in english ;p 04:00:07 - <der_t> i am looking for more infos about jsutil. but there is just an empty file /kore/on_kalati/jsutil.txt 04:34:00 - <der_t> and some stuff in trunk/source/python/app/proto/default/static/js/jsutil/ 04:34:27 - <der_t> is nicht sehr detailiert aber dafuer english 02:07:39
CRM - <talonlzr> I've taken a few minutes off coding encoder-stuff and I'm currently doing a small espian crm system 14:47:36 - <talonlzr> You can probably rewrite it in supercool plex-tech in a few minutes at some point 14:47:46 - <talonlzr> but until then, it will do very nicely for our needs :) 14:47:54 - <tav> talonlzr: ehm ? 14:47:57 - <tav> okay... wtf ? 14:48:04 - <talonlzr> Just something thruflo was asking for ;P 14:48:28 - <tav> heh 14:48:34 - <tav> well, we do need a good crm system soon 14:48:42 - <talonlzr> I've on my 10th generation CRM systems at work. 14:48:57 - <tav> was intending to do that as one of the packages of kalati though 14:48:57 - <talonlzr> I know how to build a good one :) 14:49:01 - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/07/06#14-52-50
Logging and server setup - <thruflo> hi GReaper wondering if you can help: the adidas podcast on 8001 is hanging - returning a very slow response (c. 60 secs) - after the first few times it's accessed after the protoplex server being restarted 02:22:27 - <thruflo> this is causing iTunes not to work - it's not updating and it's timing out before anyone can subscribe 02:22:50 - <thruflo> not sure if it's a server issue or a protoplex issue but need to try and fix somehow 02:23:14 - <thruflo> also while on the same topic, will need to look at the logs to work out some stats - now that the world cup has finished they'll be asking for them soon 02:25:04 - <GReaper> hmm 04:06:45 - <thruflo> ^ it's working ok now (as it would do...) 04:20:28 - <GReaper> the setup needs updating, as i'm not happy with it :p 04:23:41 - <GReaper> (it's another qin style mess) 04:23:48
[Infrastructure]
butterfly.tv - tav have you and evangineer had a chance to discuss our general server infrastructure for butterfly.tv ? - GReaper nope :p
Server setup - <GReaper> anyway, stage 2 of the plan 06:42:28 - <GReaper> move han into a virtual server on host1 06:42:36 - <thruflo> talonlzr: ok cool 06:42:37 - <GReaper> reinstall on the old han box 06:42:49 - <GReaper> that becomes host2.espnow.net 06:42:53 - <GReaper> new han moves onto host2.espnow.net :p 06:43:09
General server setup - <GReaper> right, maximum of 5 virtual services on a box 08:59:09 - <GReaper> 2048MB memory 08:59:15 - <GReaper> if qin/admin1/salfield use 512MB each 09:03:19 - <GReaper> host1 itself uses 192 or so 09:03:24 - <GReaper> leaves 2 others with 128 and 192 max 09:05:09
[Development Team Members]
- tav note: generally i'm hoping for everyone to be involved with the overall conceptual and technical development of this product - tav it paves the way for the collaborative media platform that we'll be developing for espra -- hopefully straight after - tav so cool - tav which aspects are people interested in? - tav nads -- for our wonderful slick designs - nads jupp ... and general konceptional komments - tav nads: cool *smootchkiss* - tav jeffarch -- community manager and productions - tav thruflo-- production (feeding in from clients in particular, documentation, flash, ui) - tav keyjaque -- javascript, ui - tav talonlzr -- hard-core backend (automatic encoder, &c.) - tav possumman: can i put you down for general python hacking ? - possumman sure, tha'd be great! - tav possumman: cool, thanks! - tav GReaper+evangineer: dynamic server system ? - evangineer yep, might do some fiddling with community tools stuff as well - tav __igor__: are you up for the python hacking too ? - * __igor__ might do well-defined tasks - tav __igor__: cool - tav jhb: would you be up for a general specific tasks thing like - jhb tav: yes, task oriented sounds good - tav so, t -- are you up for working on say the voip integration and the user interface aspects ? - t to tav question on qorking on the userinterface. i would help by conception and documentation of the userinterface (how to use). - t i also would help at some JS related stuff. but i am more intrested having a good js-structure in kalati. - tav cool, deltab is also interested in that - tav right, sbp and i will be co-leading this development effort - jhb tav: who has the final say: you or sbp? - tav whilst staying on in the role of architect, i want to phase myself out of development so that i can focus on the business development aspects - tav as benevolent dictator of esp, i guess i have the fundamental final say -- but don't see many cases where that would be an issue ;p - <Omnifarious> I need to spend some time figuring out what to do. 16:49:15 - <Omni|Work> AIM: Omnifarious0 Yahoo: omnifarious0 Google Talk: omnifarious@gmail.com 15:46:46
<tav> yeah, we need new business cards 19:50:52
[Protoplex/Kalati]
- Omni|Work I can see it from the outside, but don't really know how it works on the inside. - thruflo _omi: http://www.green.tv/!omi helpful? - tav note: that url thruflo pasted is live... so ehm, don't make changes pls ;p
- evangineer bootstrap using trac plugins? - evangineer possumman, for example a plugin could be using to allocate pecus/community currency to each task - Omni|Work I'm wondering if perhaps part of a Trac bootstrap might be getting the trac bug system to point at some sort of bug object in Plex. Or maybe making it automatically pull in Plex discussions.
- tav evangineer: one thing is that we really need a good events system for the applications that we are creating, e.g. the 2 way live chat - tav that's not available in protoplex, only becomes available once we have disco
- <Killarny> I'm not entirely sure what kalati needs in order to be considered 'merged' with protoplex 20:32:58 - <Killarny> fixing the event system, I guess? 20:33:57 - <Killarny> implementing templates 20:34:10 - <tav> basically http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/plexnet needs to be working/stable and have the various application logic code from http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/proto ported over to it 20:34:47 - <tav> well, we've got our own (thanks to kid) templating too -- http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/templating/pyxt/pyxt.py 20:35:57 - <Killarny> I'm going to try to find a place for me to slide in and work on the code, and over the next few weeks just split my time between military, coding, and sleep
[VOIP]
Tav still needs to get a headset for skype. - https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/ticket/3 - <jeffarch> you got a headset? ;) 19:07:06 - <tav> jeffarch: yeah ;p 19:07:11
- http://telephony.co.jp/ - http://www.peerio.com/aboutpeerio.php
Back-up comms planning? - <jeffarch> -th6thdh6hg- [Global Notice] Hi all. We've obviously had a compromise. We believe it may be limited, but we're looking at it now, and obviously we may be wrong. Apologies for the difficulties. 21:27:04
<der_t> how do use telephone/answeringmachine/callingcards/voip? - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/07/09#22-16-49 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/35 by t (1 added) in sandbox/t/ueberinterface/ -- 'first ideas about the voip stuff' -- esp.telnik.rst (A) 23:54:58
[Licensing]
- <tav> btw, sbp: can you ensure that people understand and agree with http://www.espians.com/espra/devplan.html#intellectual-property before giving them accounts pls 07:10:10
- tav basically, i'd like to ensure that we can resource the full development of kalati - possumman nads, I'm just saying, I want to eventually release my code, regardless of what happens to esp. - tav possumman: hmz, good idea - tav possumman: does october 2007 seem good to you? - possumman Yes, I'll be happy if I know I can release my code by then. - tav possumman: cool. is that good with everyone?
[Subversion]
Plugins, etc - jeffarch we still want the tags-plugin for trac, right? - tav oh yea - <possumman> Hey SBP, how about a time-saving Trac "Tickets by Milestone" tab, such as the one at http://code.campware.org/projects/campsite/? It's trivial to write such a plugin, I can send you the code for it if you like. 10:10:41
Check-ins - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/4 by tav (456 added) in 73 subdirs of kore/ -- 'some scant and inconsistent documentation' -- resume.pdf (A) 13:19:31 - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/19 by sbp (2 added) in 2 subdirs of sandbox/ -- 'Just testing checkin.\n' -- test.txt (A) 09:20:35 - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/17 by tav (3 added) in 2 subdirs of kore/project/ -- 'very early draft of a document about the mesh economy, cryptpict, &c.' -- mesheconomy.html (A) - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/21 by talonlzr (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added myself! :)\n\n' -- contributors.txt (U) 09:17:17 - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/22 by tav (4 changed) in 2 subdirs of trunk/source/python/app/proto/ -- 'abstracted out the media-rss/podcast feed generation further with support for multiple feeds running from the same protoplex node each with their own metadata and xsl file' -- - <xena> http://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/23 by tomkins (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added myself to contributors.txt.\n' -- contributors.txt (U) 17:10:18 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/24 by jeffarch (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added myself to contributors.txt\n' -- contributors.txt (U) 17:21:02 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/25 by t (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'added da t' -- contributors.txt (U) 16:35:47 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/26 by t (2 added) in 2 subdirs of sandbox/ -- 'a directory for t. and some documnets about plex. from last year. are there newer versions of it?' -- 2weeks.tgz (A) 16:38:15 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/27 by talon (14 added) in 3 subdirs of sandbox/ -- 'Initial import of the kalati encoder protocol documentation' -- KalatiEncodingPlatform-Overview.pdf (A) 15:20:56 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/28 by possum (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added possum to contributors.txt' -- contributors.txt (U) 13:24:22 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/29 by tav (1 added) in trunk/source/python/app/proto/ -- 'Some documentation detailing the various other Python packages that Protoplex depends on.' -- deps.txt (A) 13:46:31 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/30 by possum (1 changed, 1 removed) in 2 subdirs of / -- 'Removed empty file decimal.py, minor editorial changes to state_of_espia.txt' -- state_of_espia.txt (U) 08:20:10 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/31 by t (2 added) in 2 subdirs of sandbox/t/ -- 'german general notes about the ueberinterface. before reading this take al look at ueberinterface.txt \n\nhttps://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/kore/on_kalati/ueberinterface.txt\n\nt.' -- general.idea.ger.rst (A) 12:35:11 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/32 by t (1 added) in sandbox/t/ueberinterface/ -- 'initial notes about jsutil' -- jsutil.rst (A) 21:31:34 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/33 by t (1 added) in sandbox/t/ueberinterface/ -- 'some questions on butterfly and javascript' -- ueberinterface_butterfly.tv.rst (A) 19:41:36 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/34 by t (1 changed) in sandbox/t/ueberinterface/ -- 'some answers' -- ueberinterface_butterfly.tv.rst (U) 21:24:52 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/35 by t (1 added) in sandbox/t/ueberinterface/ -- 'first ideas about the voip stuff' -- esp.telnik.rst (A) 23:54:58 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/36 by t (1 added, 1 removed) in 2 subdirs of sandbox/t/ -- 'has noting do do with ueberinterface so i moved it out of the ueberinterface folder' -- esp.telnik.rst (A) 02:07:22 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/37 by oierw (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added oierw to contributors.txt' -- contributors.txt (U) 09:15:52
[LOCALIZATION]
- <thruflo> been setting up green.tv germany 08:41:48 - <thruflo> if you don't mind 08:41:56 - <tav> hanging out in the pub all afternoon is what i heard 08:41:59 - <thruflo> true 08:42:33 - <tav> did the guy and girl from the program... thingy get there then? 08:42:40 - <thruflo> the germans? 08:43:01 - <tav> yeah 08:43:04 - <thruflo> yup, they're v. cool, ie: nice people 08:43:17 - <tav> cool 08:43:22 - <thruflo> and they're well up for a german version 08:43:31 - <thruflo> ie: to manage the production / sourcing of german content 08:43:45 - <tav> they up for paying for the community localisation system? ;p 08:43:52 - <thruflo> and to manage the german translation / user interface 08:44:00 - <thruflo> they're certainly up for a license :) 08:44:15 - <tav> woo! ;p 08:44:38 - <thruflo> and I've been pitching the community localization like it's going out of fashion 08:44:51 - <tav> cool cool, figured you'd be 08:45:19
[Transparency]
[3ware] thruflo talonlzr: so 3ware notwithstanding, do you need a windows server now-ish - what's the timescale to set something up?
- <thruflo> two questions re: encoding service: 09:08:11 - <thruflo> 1. is there any opportunity to DRM protect wmv files when encoding? 09:08:49 - <thruflo> 2. what's the chance of setting up a locally (ie: in the office here) version of the system? 09:09:18 - <thruflo> 1. comes from qu's the guardian are raising 09:09:32 - <thruflo> 2. comes from thinking about bandwidth and handling video processing for butterfly clients 09:09:54 - <talonlzr> 1. I will have to look into it. Sounds possible, if it can be stored in an wmv encoder profile. 09:55:41 - <talonlzr> I haven't looked into MS' DRM-system yet, though. Dunno if you have to purchase a license or sumthin? 09:56:09 - <talonlzr> 2. Absolutely doable. We can code a small pretendulator-version of the Kalati-JCC 09:56:37 - <thruflo> can set up networked linux & windows if need be 09:57:32 - <thruflo> the drm issue was raised because someone in guardian films had seen the bbc iplayer drm 10:03:48 - <thruflo> Once the whole file containing the broadcast program has been downloaded, the program then fetches a licence from the BBC?s servers that allow them to watch the program (or listen to the radio show) contained in the file. 10:04:11 - <thruflo> This restricts the viewing of the program to the computer that performed the download and requires that the program be watched within seven days of the original broadcast. 10:04:15 - <thruflo> In effect, the file becomes useless after a period of up to seven days. 10:04:19 - <thruflo> ^ http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051051&sid=2&subid=5 10:04:21 - <talonlzr> I've started on a win32 jcc as well for your "desktop installation" approach. 13:40:42
[butterfly.tv]
- sbp yo tav. what's up with the butterfly.tv domain? - <thruflo> butterfly.tv now belongs to us! 10:26:10 - <thruflo> tx to ade 10:26:43
[Development Summary]
- sbp need to make sure people are maximally comfortable - sbp and excited about it. nothing happens unless people are excited about what they're doing - <tav> well, one would assume that people like us strive to always be as happy as we can be 03:06:24 - <thruflo> hence the cocaine addictions 03:06:46 - <tav> s/cocaine/mdma/ 03:07:30 - <thruflo> crikey, was that mdma? 03:07:46 - <tav> yeah 03:08:02 - <thruflo> we should have got a much better £ per kilo 03:08:07 - <thruflo> damn 03:08:14 - <tav> next time i guess -- new supplier and al 03:08:27
rst2html and python2.5 - <sbp> /usr/bin/env: python.recent: No such file or directory 10:09:22 - <tav> i'd simply add trunk/application/core to the $PATH first 10:09:43 - <tav> then, in application/executable make a symlink to your python2.5 10:10:09 - <sbp> $ PATH=$PATH:../../../trunk/application/core pyutil rst2html -t ../../template/current.pyxt -o devplan-test.html devplan.txt 10:10:30 - <sbp> /usr/bin/env: python.recent: No such file or directory 10:10:30 - <sbp> python2.5? 10:10:36 - <tav> you don't have py2.5!? 10:10:49 - <tav> *gasp* 10:10:53 - <sbp> it only came out two days ago! nobody told me! 10:10:57 - <tav> using all the right switches i presume ? 10:17:35 - <possumman> Py2.5? Didn' know that was out either. That's what we'll be plexing in? 10:18:00 - <sbp> sigh, which switches should I use? 10:18:00 - <tav> sbp: the only important one is --enable-unicode=ucs2 10:40:54 - <tav> we need 2.5 because of disco which relies on features like being able to send to generators, i.e. coroutine support 10:39:45 - <possumman> So should I upgrade to python 2.5? 10:31:36 - <sbp> possumman: probably, but not yet 10:31:47 - <possumman> <tav> [tav@arkady:/var/kalati/kore/project/kalati]$ pyutil rst2html -t ../../template/current.pyxt -o FROM_FILE_PATH devplan.txt10:06:54 08:36:34 - <possumman> Suggestions anyone? 08:36:41 - <GReaper> tell tav to create a Makefile for it 08:38:27 - <possumman> good idea 08:38:51 - <tav> GReaper: there already is a makefile in the main kore/ directory 14:11:10 - <GReaper> tell that to everyone else then! :p 14:11:22 - <tav> https://svn.espnow.net/kalati/kore/makefile 14:11:47 - <tav> it needs to be adapted a bit to take into account the random .txt files that ppl might have around though 14:12:06 - <tav> perhaps even standardise on .rst files ?# 14:12:16
Kalati Encoding Platform info - http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/25#14-11-12 - <oierw> talonlzr: where do all the different parts reside? which parts are on windows servers of ours, which are on other servers of ours and what is on the clients computers? 14:11:12 - <talonlzr> ok, I ran out of time to do the "Thoughts"-chapter today 14:59:13 - <talonlzr> so I'll answer your question, oierw 14:59:19 - More useful info here - http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/25#16-22-41 - Even more useful info here - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/26#11-03-03 - <talonlzr> If you have Microsoft Visio 2003 on some puter, the templated document in .vsd format is available here: https://svn.espnow.net/kalati/sandbox/talon/kalati-encoder-docs/KalatiEncodingPlatform-Overview.vsd 15:29:47
Chat / StarIM - <t> sbp, GReaper: what was your impression of the psyc server using for the chat component? 13:11:52 - http://www.openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/26#13-11-52
OSX - <tav> does anyone have my site-lisp? 20:41:19 - <tav> i remember sharing it in the long long ago 20:41:29 - <tav> woo! everything compiles on os x 21:24:24 - <tav> only problems i had were with libjpeg for PIL (used to auto-generate images) 21:24:52 - <tav> and with kid's anal requirement of setuptools... just do an svn checkout instead 21:25:11 - <tav> and, by everything, i meant protoplex of course ;p 21:28:09
talonlzr has been working on full speed at least :) 13:38:26 - <talonlzr> ...and still is. 13:38:29 - <talonlzr> Who is project lead on the Kalati JCC/Server control portion? 13:38:54 - <talonlzr> tav? 13:39:02 - <jeffarch> sbp? 13:40:08 - <talonlzr> aha. sbp - hows your end working out? 13:40:22
<phenny> der_t: http://www.activecollab.com/ 19:56:02 - <der_t> i have a testsetup at the twig server and its nice. 19:56:35 - <tav> der_t: the answer to your last commit is to look at https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/trunk/source/python/app/proto/default/static/js 19:56:42 - <tav> der_t: looks nice, but i'm trying to make trac, svn and irc be the only non-kalati based tools we use... ;p 19:58:10 - <der_t> ??? 19:58:48 - <der_t> voip/mail/web/blog? 19:58:56 - <der_t> i mean this activecollab and its php 20:00:03 - <der_t> so we loose our input to a application which is written in a language that (as far as i think) nowone of us wanna use. 20:00:58
<tav> hmz @ http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/protocol.html -- anyone have any thoughts on it ? 22:35:47 - <tav> gdata builds on the atom publishing protocol and opensearch (from amazon) 22:52:13 - <tav> http://opensearch.a9.com/ 22:52:58 - <tav> http://bitworking.org/projects/atom/draft-ietf-atompub-protocol-08.html 22:53:29 - <tav> now, we could support gdata or create our own ;p 22:59:26 - <der_t> damn thats both shitty possibilitys. 22:59:52 - <der_t> no existing usercommunity 22:59:59 - <der_t> no existing frontend. 23:00:12 - <tav> heh 23:00:47 - <tav> well, gdata does have google... 23:00:57
[Shaila]
* sbp waves to the Shaila readers again
- <jeffarch> Some things I'd like to point out about the shailas 07:48:23 - <jeffarch> In trac, they are all wikis. To me, that means they aren't static documents, and would be flattered by any collaborative editing that happens there. 07:50:12 - <jeffarch> I'd even be willing to make annotations to them if they were in email/newsgroup/irc. 07:52:01 - <jeffarch> Could be afterthoughts about something discussed, tag games/sections, reStructuredText formatting, etc. 07:53:38 - <jeffarch> My motivation behind this whole thing is to encourage the development of better tools, by displaying an attempt do do it by hand. ;) 07:56:36 - <jeffarch> I intend to fill in holes in documentation and create new documentation (like an FAQ) with what's been discussed in irc. 08:06:40
<jeffarch> fifth shaila won't post to google groups, is 56835k 18:38:28
<tav> thruflo: moonedit server is on qin.espnow.net 32123 password hakuna 05:16:23
<talonlzr> We really need that "WHATS GOING ON"-wiki 14:08:05
- <jeffarch> der_t: I'm also looking at the format sbp used 18:58:16 - <der_t> where? 18:59:02 - <der_t> and what kind of format do u mean? 18:59:36 - <jeffarch> restructured text and tags 18:59:53 - <jeffarch> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/browser/kore/shaila/quadecavian_shailas/quadecavian_shaila_2594.txt 19:00:13
[Other]
- tav 1. http://www.brightcove.com - tav 2. http://feedroom.speedera.net/company.feedroom.com/index.html - tav 3. http://www.narrowstep.com/ - tav we have some pretty good advantages over them - tav but they are light years ahead in other respects - tav www.metacafe.com -- another consumer play - tav http://www.forbidden.co.uk/ -- a competitor, but mainly java based, so .. ;p - tav their http://info.clesh.com/ product sounds similar to our collaborative video editing function - tav (that we intend to build)
- <sbp> I'd better free up some space first anyway 15:41:08 - <tav> hmz, we need to get everyone a new laptop it seems 15:41:25 - <tav> sorry all, life buggered 19:38:31 - <tav> my laptop got stolen as part of the hub buglary operation earlier tongith 19:38:49
<tav> so, ehm sorry guys and girls at the guardian/nokia/21west/adidas/telephony-japan, our project lead couldn't get hold of the source code... 17:10:5
<thruflo> phenny: tell tav that smoking when pregnant can harm his unborn child 04:37:54 - <tav> i push my seed in her bush for life 03:13:39 - <tav> it's going to work cos i'm pushing it right 03:13:45 - <thruflo> work it baby
<sbp> http://inamidst.com/pluvo/ 18:17:54 - <tav> is that what we're rewriting kalati in ? 18:34:04
- <talonlzr> It would be cool to implement an "espian identity" kind of auth thing though 15:03:45 - <talonlzr> containing your public key, your email address and a password 15:04:04 - <talonlzr> systems could then auth towards it. 15:04:20 - <talonlzr> maybe even contain an user-info-URI and a GUID too 15:04:47 - <talonlzr> and maybe a display-name 15:04:55 - <talonlzr> would be sufficient for a basic user-profile in any system. 15:05:03 - <GReaper> hmmmm 15:05:11 - <GReaper> ssl client certificates? 15:05:24 - <talonlzr> could your mail-auth-table be extended with those fields? 15:05:27 - <talonlzr> postfix, right? 15:05:29 - <GReaper> it's postfixadmin being used 15:06:13 - <GReaper> postfix SASL -> saslauth -> rimap -> dovecot -> mysql 15:06:40 - <GReaper> (wow, what a combo) 15:06:51 - <talonlzr> aha :) 15:06:56
oierw tests /me 08:54:24 - * jeffarch notices the oierw self-test complete successfully 09:12:14 - <oierw> do we get emails for those? 09:15:52 - <xena> https://projects.espnow.com/kalati/changeset/37 by oierw (1 changed) in sandbox/ -- 'Added oierw to contributors.txt' -- contributors.txt (U) 09:15:52 - <oierw> ah. 09:16:22 - <oierw> now xena responds 09:16:31 - <oierw> how did you notice? 09:16:36 - <jeffarch> * oierw tests /me 09:18:37 - <jeffarch> along with good timing :) 09:19:15 - <oierw> ah. I thought you were talking about the checkin at about the same exact time you made the comment :) 09:19:34 - <oierw> i was showing some features to someone 09:19:44
