From espians

The Team Of Total Awesomenesses Shaila, The Third

Info: See <http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/latest> for introductory docs.

Author: Jeffry Archambeault (jeffarch) <jjarchambeault@gmail.com>

Date: $Date: 2006-06-20 17:00:00 +0100 (Sat, 20 Jun 2006) $

Revision: $Revision: 0001 $

Description: Summary of daily #esp-core IRC logs

Shaila Meta-Stuff

References
 _devplan: http://www.espians.com/espra/devplan.html document covers the details.

 _devtasks: http://www.largeblue.com/_space/first_run_through.txt

Please excuse the mixed-format irc log snippets.  I usually use my x-chat buffer, but that gets lost on reboot. :/

[Shaila]

- <jeffarch> 	reading, looking for a ref	 19:00:22
- <oierw> 	what for?	19:00:35
- <jeffarch> 	shaila	19:01:29
- <oierw> 	which is?	19:02:29
- <jeffarch> 	finding a previous reference in the irc log and bringing it in as applicable to the current discussion	19:03:11
- <oierw> 	ah. a tav(tm) word	19:04:11
- <jeffarch> 	but basically, I want to look thru http://www.largeblue.com/_space/first_run_through.txt, but possumman and evangineer what probably agree with what oierw just said	19:06:41
- <oierw> 	what is shaila?	19:11:54
- <oierw> 	and we really need to get real names for thw words tav makes up. things that make sense]	19:12:17
- <jeffarch> 	has to do with tagging in irc, being able to group and layer discussions	19:12:39
- <oierw> 	something I was thinking about ~20 minutes ago, actually	19:13:09
- <jeffarch> 	for one, it would help create the summaries I'm doing, as well as other documentation	19:15:14
- <oierw> 	something where a few people can run through and tav conversations having to do with certain subjects (changing daily) and then some sort of meta tagging between days....	19:16:03
- <jeffarch> 	yeah...	19:16:41
- <jeffarch> 	urgen in #esp wants to do it with NLP, but I just want the capability to do it manually for now	19:17:11
- <oierw> 	it's a really hard problem	19:17:27
- <oierw> 	especiall with people coming in and out of different conversations in the same channel. it seems to me it would havce a tendancy to group too many conversations together	19:18:02
- <jeffarch> 	I waant to be able to manually tag. Having multiple people doing it in the samme channel would get complicated	19:18:12
- <jeffarch> 	have a 'channel secretary' do it	19:18:53
- <oierw> 	aka: jeffarch	19:19:43
- <oierw> 	:)	19:19:46
- <jeffarch> 	just needs a bot, and a trivial/convenient way to create new tags	19:20:15
- <jeffarch> 	right :)	19:20:34
- <jeffarch> 	that's what I'll be getting paid to do ;)	19:21:00
- <jeffarch> 	part of it	19:21:14
- <oierw> 	it should be doable with two passes of the irc logs. the first pass you type in the types of conversations you are having. the second pass you tag each line with what it's pertaining to	19:21:21
- <jeffarch> 	or be able to define blocks	19:21:47
- <jeffarch> 	and have single exceptions within the block	19:22:22
- <jeffarch> 	but that's basically what I'm doing manually	19:22:50
- <jeffarch> 	heh...

...

- jhb jeffarch: thx a lot for the summaries - its an really excellent thing to have
- jhb I am very pleased
- jeffarch jhb: you're most welcome :)
- jeffarch some things are easier to summarise than others ;)
- sbp SUMMARISE THIS
- jeffarch sbp SUMMARISE THIS
- oierw that was good
- jeffarch easy, too ;)

#esp-core Summary

[Business Contracts]

[Business Structure]

[Business Accounting]

http://www.broadcast.net/pipermail/webcasting/2005-November/000413.html

...

- <oierw> 	why would we have a VAR in september?	 19:40:06
- <oierw> 	do we get more each month?	19:40:11
- <oierw> 	do they affect the client count?	19:40:18
- <tav> 	oierw: there is already active interest in reselling our shit	19:42:31
- <tav> 	e.g. jeffarch, thruflo and i went in and got a deal with 21west who are interested in doing just that	19:42:57
- <tav> 	the VAR scheme would provide "certification" of their status	19:43:13
- <oierw> 	how dp they affect the clients?	19:43:23
- <oierw> 	a VAR would charge more for the service?	19:43:32
- <tav> 	or just simply take the setup commission...	19:43:51
- <tav> 	ideally, they'd add a lot more value	19:44:16
- <tav> 	but, these are all questions for august when the VARs programme gets developed

...

- <tav> 	guys, i'm off to drink with some financiers, so not gonna be able to get the source up tonight

[Development Timeline]

- <jeffarch> 	GReaper but the point is, renting out a few servers to start off with fine	 17:13:26
- <jeffarch> 	GReaper it's cheap, it gets you started	17:13:26
- <GReaper> 	oh, i'm not denying renting a few out to start with	17:13:45
- <GReaper> 	that's great	17:13:48
- <jeffarch> 	heh...ok, so the only thing we have to play with is a spreadsheet ;)	17:13:53
- <jeffarch> 	GReaper: ya, that's what I thought you meant :)	17:14:27
- <GReaper> 	but theres a point at where you get yourself setup properly with your own servers colocated somewhere	17:14:28
- <jeffarch> 	right	17:14:46
- <jeffarch> 	and we can even think about that	17:15:06
- <GReaper> 	also	17:15:08
- <GReaper> 	one thought i did have	17:15:15
- <GReaper> 	you could have the majority of content at one place, with the occasional server elsewhere to offload to	17:15:54
- <jeffarch> 	off-site backup for safety?	17:16:10
- <GReaper> 	backups are another issue	17:16:20
- <jeffarch> 	k...gotcha	17:16:55
- <jeffarch> 	distributing load, etc	17:17:16
- <GReaper> 	distributing load is one thing, but a super distributed net is another	17:17:45
- <jeffarch> 	I'm not thinking that far ahead yet	17:19:12
- <jeffarch> 	but tav's talking dht's by end-of-july	17:19:53
- <jeffarch> 	my "jumping ahead a few steps" comment last night was part of a thought-chain regarding DHTs and free drive space on each server. If each client had their own server, there'd seem to be lots of extra drive space available for 3x redundancy, via DHT. 2 SANs (eu and us) plus the host server would also give 3x redundancy, but I don't know how DHT's figure into that.	17:21:05
- <jeffarch> 	out of my ballpark	17:21:42
- <GReaper> 	get a product up and running first, instead of abusing it for a DHT network	17:22:08
- <jeffarch> 	I like the "get a product up and running first" part, but am unqualified to make any further judgements :)	17:27:49
- <oierw> 	i don't understand why we would try to use a dht between sites right now anyways	17:31:28
- <oierw> 	even using the 250 servers by september 2007, we don't need one for that many servers. we just need to spread content so it's mirrored at other sites quickly	17:33:41
- <GReaper> 	indeed	17:37:20
- <GReaper> 	2 SAN's at 2 datacentres is far more efficient	17:37:41
- <oierw> 	afaict, he just wants it because it's a protoplex/katali need	17:37:49
- <jeffarch> 	reading, looking for a ref	19:00:22
- <oierw> 	what for?	19:00:35
- <jeffarch> 	but basically, I want to look thru http://www.largeblue.com/_space/first_run_through.txt, but possumman and evangineer what probably agree with what oierw just said	19:06:41
- <jeffarch> 	it raises issues with the section 3.1 deliverables	19:11:15
- <jeffarch> 	it won't be the only migration issue	19:11:53
- <jeffarch> 	Jun 14 15:33:25 tav 3.1/a dynamic server setup -- so we can have a quick way of setting up	19:32:17
- <jeffarch> 	new instances	19:32:17
- <oierw> 	i think there's a lot of repitition in these things. I woudln't expect instances to require a new server	19:32:55
- <jeffarch> 	that's the only aspect that he listed in that section	19:34:08
- <jeffarch> 	http://openideaproject.org/irclogs/browse/esp-core/2006/06/14#12-33-21	19:35:02
- <tav> 	hey all	19:36:29
- <jeffarch> 	I see a best case as being able to use http://khashmir.sourceforge.net/, http://www.heim-d.uni-sb.de/~heikowu/SharkyPy/, or http://thecircle.org.au/	19:37:01
- <jeffarch> 	hi tav :)	19:37:06
- <tav> 	yeah, we'll be adapting all of those	19:37:23
- <jeffarch> 	whee! :)	19:37:31
- <tav> 	i'm familiar with all the major research/developments up until mid last year	19:38:33
- <tav> 	but, not much happened in the year before, so not sure if there is much new out there

...

- <tav> 	so, the situation is this... i need to:	 20:00:03
- <tav> 	a). get the tech development done	20:00:11
- <GReaper> 	will do my best to move that one over	20:00:11
- <tav> 	b). get the business development done	20:00:18
- <tav> 	c). see nammi in india	20:00:23
- <tav> 	d). see liliana in italy (?)	20:00:32
- <tav> 	e). see you/nadine in london	20:00:43
- <tav> 	all before the end of july...	20:00:54
- <tav> 	i'm thinking... nammi (july 1-7), you/nadine (july 8-12), liliana (13-23) ?	20:01:35
- <oierw> 	i'm sure I am able to help atleast a bit with a

...

- <tav> 	Thank you for registering to attend Broadcast LIVE. The event takes place at Earls Court 2, London, 20th-22nd June 2006. Your badge number is 701614

[Development Tasks]

- oierw tav: is there any source to look at for stuff?
- tav oh yeah, source
- tav ;p
- * tav makes an exit
- oierw :)
- * tav breaks down -- there is no source code
- tav *sob*
- oierw it's hard to try to do work without anything to work on
- tav it's all a myth
- oierw green.tv is a hand made website i see
- tav green.tv is just a static site
- * tav bwahahahaha
- tav *cough*
- * evangineer raises an eyebrow

[Infrastructure]

GReaper continues work on reorganizing our servers.

- <evangineer> 	so the plan is to install slackware as the host distro, then xen. After that everything will be running inside the virtual servers	 06:02:15
- <GReaper> 	indeed	06:02:55
- <GReaper> 	then administration can be seperated from development	06:03:13
- <evangineer> 	sensible

...

- <evangineer> 	one advantage of building out the butterfly.tv infrastructure using dapper is the Long Term Support guarantee and the ability to obtain a paid support contract from Canonical. We won't need it ourselves, but if butterfly.tv is sold on, the buyers won't need to rely on us for sysadmin level technical support.

...

- <GReaper> 	dom0 is done :p	 18:10:12
- <GReaper> 	just doing admin1.espnow.net atm	18:10:18
- <GReaper> 	aka the virtual server no other bastard touches :p	18:10:38
- <jeffarch> 	I did a make menuconfig on a 2.6 kernel recently and was just amazed at the # of options	18:11:16
- <jeffarch> 	was kinda wondering which instance was gonna be which	18:19:46
- <GReaper> 	the virtual servers?	18:30:11
- <GReaper> 	88.198.247.130 = admin1.espnow.net - gentoo, email/webmail/secure/dns	18:33:12
- <GReaper> 	possibly cvs/trac	18:33:26
- <GReaper> 	88.198.247.131 = qin.espnow.net - debian, free for general use	18:33:54
- <GReaper> 	whatever you run on it, you manage yourself :p	18:34:10
- <jeffarch> 	ok...was jsut curious if some admn1 functions were going to be on a vs or not	18:34:21
- <GReaper> 	hmmm?	18:34:48
- <jeffarch> 	that's all I needed to know :)	18:35:25
- <GReaper> 	the main host is quite minimal

[Development Team Members]

- <tav> 	yeah, we need new business cards	 19:50:52
- <tav> 	jeffarch: the same logo as always ? ;p	19:51:01
- <jeffarch> 	I hadn't seen it till a few months ago ;p	19:51:27
- <tav> 	heh	19:51:34
- <jeffarch> 	what's that one? ;p	19:52:13
- <GReaper> 	yup, do it now	19:54:22
- <GReaper> 	so i don't have to yell at you tomorrow ;p	19:54:30
- <tav> 		19:54:45
- <tav> 	GReaper: done	19:56:25
- <tav> 	oierw: we're adopting the roerich flag as the espian logo btw	19:56:40
- <tav> 	makes for a good espian flag ;p	19:56:51
- <tav> 	atariboy's done the work already -- just need to design up a new business card with both logos on it	19:57:23
- <GReaper> 	k, nice	19:57:49
- <GReaper> 	i'll be moving the rest of qin's services over tomorrow, and probably fiddle about with qin as well :p	19:58:07
- <tav> 	also, what are the thoughts on "beyond intuition" vs. "justanotherevolution" vs. "mapping the frontiers of complexity" ?

[Protoplex/Kalati]

[VOIP]

[Licensing]

[Subversion]

svn & track installed

- tav there's an xslt stylesheet that can be applied to the svn btw
- tav http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch06s04.html#svn-ch-6-sect-4.5.1

- tav http://divmod.org/svn/Divmod/sandbox/exarkun/commit-bot/ looks useful

- jeffarch we still want the tags-plugin for trac, right?
- tav oh yea

[LOCALIZATION]

[Transparency]

[3ware]

[butterfly.tv]

[Development Summary]

- <kpi> 	i am up to writing a new blog entry on the current development effort	 11:20:07
- <kpi> 	on blog.espnow.com that would be	11:20:38
- <jeffarch> 	not sure how much info tav wants to be seen by the general public	11:22:05
- <kpi> 	so better no blogging then?	11:23:24
- <jeffarch> 	a "development sprint in-progress" message at the very least?	11:23:45
- <kpi> 	well. that's what i thought of.	11:24:10
- <kpi> 	i wrote some rather harmless text. have a look.	11:34:25
- <kpi> 	let me know what you think.	11:34:43
- <kpi> 	http://blog.espnow.com/archive/2006/06/19/team-of-total-awesomeness/	11:38:16
- <tav> 	kpi: nice. not too informative, but gives a decent update

[World Cup]

[Other]

- tav 1. http://www.brightcove.com
- tav 2. http://feedroom.speedera.net/company.feedroom.com/index.html
- tav 3. http://www.narrowstep.com/
- tav we have some pretty good advantages over them
- tav but they are light years ahead in other respects
- tav www.metacafe.com -- another consumer play
- tav http://www.forbidden.co.uk/ -- a competitor, but mainly java based, so .. ;p
- tav their http://info.clesh.com/ product sounds similar to our collaborative video editing function
- tav (that we intend to build)

==TTLY== - This Time Last Year - a look at the #esp logs from a year ago, just for fun

Big discussion about... 

- <qopi> 	hey Sunir	 14:28:40
- <Sunir> 	hey qopi	14:28:47
- <Sunir> 	what is the up?	14:28:53
- <qopi> 	can you think of a good reason to use wiki mark-up as opposed to wysiwyg?

...

- qopi is a londoner, earthling and creature of the universe

...

- <qopi> 	like http://www.karmabanque.com , but even bolder

...

- <urgyen> 	the author of The Glass Plate Game came by bus and is visiting here

...

- <oierw> 	hey. no new news on the new software from tav?

...

- <urgyen> 	:-) I sure wish the US actually had culture instead of this thin gruel we live in they claim is our own special brand

...

- <nsh> 	so we need to build a tricorder before anything else	 08:07:35
- <nsh> 	something to give people who are participating that they can use to help define further their participation	08:08:09
- <urgyen> 	cell phones are getting close

...

- <nsh> 	"The Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever.	 20:10:35
- <nsh> 	" -Konstantin Tsiolkovsky

...

- <nsh> 	is there a difference between pretended subordination and delegated trust?	 20:35:00
- <urgyen> 	I didn't know it was that conscious for most people :-)	20:38:07
- <nsh> 	:-)	20:38:49
- <nsh> 	We're knot most people